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# Re: Re: Does Water give form to Fire ? - complement to my question

#### Message 01616 of 3835

- To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: [BardonPraxis] Re: Does Water give form to Fire ? - complement to my question
- From: Newbieonekenhobby <newbieonekenhobby@...>
- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:21:42 -0700 (PDT)
- In-reply-to: <bn752j+rmh7@eGroups.com>

    Many thanks, mj.

    To close this subject, the fact that I asked this
    question concerning the theory (as did others for
    other subjects) does not mean that I *limit* myself to
    theory, at the expenses of my practice :-)

    However, the experiences related by the other students
    showed me that I can limit my efforts on this side for
    a little while.

    With my best messages
    NB

    --- forestofsymbols <forestofsymbols@...> wrote:
    >
    > NB,
    >
    > > <<It might help if rather than thinking of these
    > > things in the abstract, you find some experiences
    > to
    > > tie them to, to make them real for yourself. >>
    > >
    > > Can you elaborate, please ? I'm interested in all
    > > possible ways to improve my meditations on the
    > > Elements - and the questions they raise. Thanks in
    > > advance.
    >
    > I can elaborate only a very little. I'm not so
    > far on this path
    > myself.
    >
    > It seems to me that the first rule of esoteric
    > study is to accept
    > nothing, verify everything. We could talk all day
    > about cats, their
    > shape, color, disposition and habits, but nothing
    > will teach you as
    > much about cats as actually seeing one, hearing one,
    > interacting with
    > one. When you speak of the Element Fire, what do you
    > mean? Have you
    > seen it, interacted with it, felt it, known it? What
    > experiences have
    > you had, physically, emotionally, and mentally could
    > you connect with
    > the vague concept of Fire? For me, Fire is hot and
    > expanding,
    > energetic. You can light a candle and watch it, feel
    > it, think about
    > it, observe yourself and see what feelings and
    > thoughts it inspires.
    > You can sit in the sun on a summer day, feel it, the
    > heat on the
    > skin, the jumpiness in the mind, the muscular
    > tension and discomfort
    > that comes. Watch yourself when you grow angry, you
    > can actually feel
    > the heat flash through your body and cloud your
    > mind. All of these
    > things will give you actual first hand experiences
    > that you can draw
    > on and tie to the abstract symbol of "Fire." For me,
    > this is all a
    > corollary from the exercises of the first step,
    > namely thought
    > observation.
    >
    > Hope this helps.
    >
    > mj
    >
    > --- In BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com,
    > Newbieonekenhobby
    > <newbieonekenhobby@y...> wrote:
    > > Dear forestofsymbols,
    > >
    > > Many thanks for your message.
    > >
    > > <<it sounds like you might be confusing the
    > elements
    > > (fire, water, earth, air, and ether) and the
    > levels
    > > (physical, astral, mental). >>
    > >
    > > I re-read my message, and I understand your
    > feeling
    > > :-). English is not my mother tongue (as you may
    > have
    > > guessed :-) and the following sentence,
    > particularly,
    > > could have been written more carefully :
    > > -----
    > > does the "shaping" of the raw energy issued by
    > Fire
    > > take place at the Water level ?
    > > -----
    > > What I meant was simply "is the raw energy issued
    > by
    > > Fire shaped by Water".
    > > In spite of my clumsly wording, I don't have the
    > > feeling I made a confusion between Elements and
    > Planes
    > > (...although physical corresponds to the Earth
    > > Element, astral to the Water Element, Mental to
    > the
    > > Fire Element etc., ... and knowing that Astral is
    > an
    > > intermediary between Mental and Physical. Aarghh.
    > > Just wanted to ensure I confused everybody :-) :-)
    > >
    > > Given the correspondance just mentionned above, I
    > was
    > > tempted to answer myself "yes" to my own question
    > > (does water give form to Fire). But I'm still not
    > > sure.
    > >
    > > The question I asked is valid for all planes, not
    > only
    > > the physical one.
    > >
    > > <<It might help if rather than thinking of these
    > > things in the abstract, you find some experiences
    > to
    > > tie them to, to make them real for yourself. >>
    > >
    > > Can you elaborate, please ? I'm interested in all
    > > possible ways to improve my meditations on the
    > > Elements - and the questions they raise. Thanks in
    > > advance.
    > >
    > > Greetings
    > > NB
    > >
    > >
    > > --- forestofsymbols <forestofsymbols@y...> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Others may disagee, but it sounds like you
    > might
    > > > be confusing the
    > > > elements (fire, water, earth, air, and ether)
    > and
    > > > the levels
    > > > (physical, astral, mental). Further, it seems
    > that
    > > > you are also
    > > > confining the element "earth" to the physical
    > level
    > > > alone. It might
    > > > help if rather than thinking of these things in
    > the
    > > > abstract, you
    > > > find some experiences to tie them to, to make
    > them
    > > > real for yourself.
    > > > This was my own mistake as I've recently
    > discovered.
    > > >
    > > > mj
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --- In BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com,
    > > > Newbieonekenhobby
    > > > <newbieonekenhobby@y...> wrote:
    > > > > Oops. Here are a few sentences I forgot to
    > > > include.
    > > > >
    > > > > I know that the actual *solidification* ("let
    > it
    > > > be
    > > > > done") takes place at the Earth Element -
    > > > > electromagnetic level.
    > > > >
    > > > > My question is not about this level:
    > > > solidification is
    > > > > distinct from shaping IMHO. My question is
    > really
    > > > > about the original "Intention/Design" : does
    > the
    > > > > "shaping" of the raw energy issued by Fire
    > take
    > > > place
    > > > > at the Water level ?
    > > > >
    > > > > May sound confusing (and confused) to the
    > other
    > > > > students. I apologize ...but I still need to
    > know,
    > > > > because till now I believed that Water was
    > > > > "shrinking", so to speak, something already
    > formed
    > > > and
    > > > > solidified at another level, but I did not
    > imagine
    > > > > that it was taking a role in the shaping
    > process.
    > > > >
    > > > > Ok. I'll stop worsening my case :-)
    > > > >
    > > > > Many thanks
    > > > > NB
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > --- newbieonekenhobby <newbieonekenhobby@y...>
    > > > > wrote:
    > > > > > In Rawn's comments on IIH, I read in the
    > "Theory
    > > > > > Section":
    > > > > >
    > > > > > <<The magnetic Fluid *gives form* to the
    > > > Electric
    > > > > > force>> (emphasis
    > > > > > mine).
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Taking this literally, meaning that the
    > creation
    >
    === message truncated ===

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