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# RE: Re: What does it mean to become noble concerning passions?

#### Message 03501 of 3835

- To: <BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com>
- Subject: RE: [BardonPraxis] Re: What does it mean to become noble concerning passions?
- From: "Kathy Glendening" <kglendening@...>
- Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:52:11 -0500
- Importance: Normal
- In-reply-to: <csrnc6+hu65@eGroups.com>

    Greetings, all. I am new to the group and have been, for the most part,
    a "lurker". In general, I make few comments unless I feel I might have
    something to say that is of value. Clearly, Ravi has given the concept
    an enormous amount of thought. I would like to suggest that self
    evaluation and soul progression is a life long task, and the more we
    take time to analyze our faults and weaknesses, the more we grow. The
    more spiritual we grow, the more we understand that qualities which we
    may have previously considered to be of value, are really traits which
    should be purged. So, if a particular Caesar (we'll make him a ruthless
    one) or Genghis Kahn were to spend days examining their souls, I think
    that as they progressed spiritually, their perspectives would change as
    it came into line with the Spirit.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ravi Mohan [mailto:magesmail@...]
    Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 3:07 PM
    To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [BardonPraxis] Re: What does it mean to become noble concerning
    passions?

    Rawn
    A few questions if i may, just to make sure i have understood this
    right ..

    you said
    > The process of transformation begins with and hinges upon the Soul
    > Mirror *self* analysis of the *present* character.

    also,

    > Self-honesty means that *every* valuation you make about your
    character
    > must be based solely upon how *you* *feel* emotionally and what *you*
    > *think* about *your own* actions, emotional habits and habits of
    > thinking (i.e., your manifest character).

    ok. but does this not mean that there is a possibility of our own
    "ideals" being out of whack with social/cultural norms ? For eg a
    person could think it is "ok" to dominate others for example, because
    he (a) "feels" and thinks that it is right (he could have a world
    view in which domination of the weaker by the stronger is the "right
    thing")

    As a thought experiment let us take someone like say Caesar or Genghis
    Khan , who have immense leadership and martial qualities and are
    brought up in a culture of conquest(classical Rome or the stepes of
    Monglia a particular periods in time).If such a person would do a soul
    mirror exercise would he not put down the "ability to dominate others
    and bend them to my will" as a *positive* virtue ?and when he
    postivizes his soul mirror would he not try to maximise these
    qualities ?

    On the other hand if a person with such an ability had a "everyone is
    equal irrespective of strength" ethic(which would be the case in
    modern societies with "equality before law" etc ) the the "will to
    dominate" characteristic would be "negative" and something to turn
    away from him or use "constructively " (quotes because what
    is"constructive" would also vary socially/culturally and situationally)

    >This requires an
    > absolute or "radical" honesty with oneself and here is where the
    > perennial analogy of the murderer or "black magician" is absurd.
    > By
    > definition such an individual would be constitutionally incapable of
    > this degree of self-honesty.
    >

    > Self-honesty means that *every* valuation you make about your
    character
    > must be based solely upon how *you* *feel* emotionally and what *you*
    > *think* about *your own* actions, emotional habits and habits of
    > thinking (i.e., your manifest character).

    ok i am confused here . why would someone be unable to look into
    himself just because he kills (say, a soldier or a spy) or practices
    occultism without understanding all the nuances of what he does (this
    would be the meaning of "black magic" from abrdonian pov rght?) and
    believes that invoking spirits and making pacts with them is the
    *right way* ?

    > When you begin interjecting
    > what others think or feel or do then you are not reaching all the way
    > down to what *you* are thinking or feeling. *Your* thoughts and
    > feelings may very well agree with what others *say* they are thinking
    > and feeling, and that's perfectly "okay" so long as they are *your*
    > feelings and thoughts. And likewise, *your* thoughts and feelings may
    > very well disagree with what others *say* they are thinking and
    feeling,
    > and that *also* is perfectly "okay" for *you*, even if no one else
    > agrees. *All* that matters in *this* process is what *you* think and
    > feel about *you*.

    yes my concern here is that by this standard if a person always does
    what is right acording to your own "feelings" and "thoughts" , he
    could still end up doing very destructive things as viewed from the
    outside .

    Is this still "balanced" ? Is a person whose thoughts emotions and
    actions are in harmony balanced if he finds the consequences of his
    actions "aceptable" within his examined and accepted world view?

    > And of course (I assume this goes without saying but figure I might as
    > well say it anyway just to be sure I'm clear enough), the way that our
    > actions, thoughts and feelings effect others and our environment are
    > important reflections of self that must be considered in any
    > self-evaluation. If we feel really great about ourselves but are
    > alienating every one around us then something is amiss and way out of
    > any sort of *functional* balance.

    considered yes . but the decisions to be taken after that
    consideration would still seem to be very uniquely individual and
    could range from very "positive" (by a particular set of beliefs) or
    "negative" , Are you saying that if the person doing the self analysis
    is satisfied emotianally and logicaly about the rightness of his
    actions then that is "balanced" ?

    what about if you are alienating some people and gaining the approval
    of others ? Do you have to gain the approval of everyone /not
    alienbate a single soul in order to be balanced ? just to restate the
    point one more time , what if a person feels that a negative behaiour
    like killing or domination is a)emotionally "right" b)and logically
    "right" as per his world view ?

    So would "balance" be culturally dependent ? (i have found a large
    part of what seems "right" is very culture dependent .As an extreme
    exmple whether one is a "terrorist" "soldier" or "freedom fighter"
    and whether the victims of a terrorist attack/military strike are
    "innocent victims" or "collateral damage" would depend very much on
    cultural/social assumptions on the rights of the individual, the
    nature of war etc .

    Any thoughts are greatly appreciated .

    Regds,
    NKKA

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