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# Re: Ponderations

#### Message 02937 of 3835

- To: <BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com>
- Subject: Re: [BardonPraxis] Ponderations
- From: "Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@...>
- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:55:17 -0700
- References: <20040819165158.82988.qmail@...>

    Dear Justin,

    >> This one was asked by a friend who has read Mr.Bardons works but not
    pursuing the work it self. "When one reaches the end of step 10
    Mr.Bardon says there is nothing more he can tell the initiate for he has
    become one with Deity. Yet we have 2 more books after this!" <<

    :) In the introductions to both PME and KTQ, Bardon stated that
    evocation and quabbalah should not be undertaken until the initiate has
    completed Step *Eight* -- not Step Ten. Step Eight concerns three
    primary abilities necessary for one to begin working with PME and KTQ:
    1. mental wandering. 2. mastery of the Fluids. 3. magic influence
    through the Elements.

    >> I gave the answer i thought that made sense , that the magician does
    not *need* those books, it just makes things easier on him to have the
    information instead of collecting it all by himself. <<

    These books are more for the person just starting out with their pursuit
    of Hermetics, than they are for the master of Step Eight. They give the
    reader an idea of what is possible and provide something to look forward
    to.

    >> - If the magician is merged with Deity, why would he need to read and
    learn how to evoke spirits or speak in the universal language. <<

    They wouldn't. :)

    >> Would not the merging bring the magician into that knowledge of the
    cosmic language and no need to evoke a spirit since they are one with
    God? What could a spirit tell you or why do you need to show your
    magical authority over a spirit when you are one with God? <<

    The practice of magical evocation is a learning experience that,
    ideally, leads the magician *to* merging with Unity. This is why it's a
    work one begins *while working on Step Nine* of IIH. You might want to
    check out http://www.ABardonCompanion.com/WhyPME.html

    >> - I know there must be a quantum level of difference between personal
    Deity and the Unity. So as i see it one first merges with the personal
    Deity and then progresses up the Tree merging with higher god forms
    until they have the potential to accept a merger with the Unity. So is
    this where PME and KTQ come in? Possibly The merger with ones personal
    Deity is not as awe-some and connecting as i think and only a "device"
    to raise ones four primary aspects to a higher level. If this were the
    case i see that one would need to slowly work with spirits/geniuses up
    to deities until Unity is reached. So this beings me to : are books 2
    and 3 apart of step 10 in a way? Meaning in step 10 spirit you rise
    along the planes up to Unity. In step 10 astral you build your personal
    god. This is not completed truly until one works on all three books at
    once integrating all these energies into the self, mastering the
    spherical sentient energies by evocation and the cosmic lawfulness by
    tetra-polar speech. <<

    Yes.

    >> - I have a friend who does ritual invocations of the Greek deities. I
    have seen these rituals and they are beautiful and fascinating. Now his
    face and demeanor change and you can tell that there is something
    different. Watching the aura around him i can see a completely different
    energy. Its more vibrant and more plentiful. He gives each one in the
    circle a dialog that is helpful or has some importance to the future.
    Now i know that Mr.Bardon says these are possessions. What i am
    wondering: Is this in some way what Mr.Bardon speaks of in the merging
    with personal Deity, except that one builds the Deity and not takes a
    "ready-made one"? <<

    Merging with the personal deity is an expansion of *self*; whereas,
    possession is an invocation of *other* and an abandoning of self to that
    other presence. The effects of the true merging are permanent while the
    effects of possession are temporary.

    >> When one is progressing up the spheres does one truly merge with the
    deities met? What makes it different than possession as spoken by
    Mr.Bardon before? <<

    Yes and the difference is that it's a process of the magician expanding
    their *own* self-awareness so that it encompasses that of the deity. It
    is a sharing of self, not a possession of self.

    >> Maybe i am wrong maybe one is only to converse with the deities as
    they rise up? This would still produce an effect within the initiate,
    most anyone recognizes the fact we all adapt to the environment or
    setting. Over a period of time it would make sense one would take on
    more deified qualities by being around them more. <<

    :) Perhaps you should reconsider your definition of "conversing" with a
    *deity*? It's an entirely different kettle of fish than talking with
    your best friend . . . At these levels, communication *is* merging.

    >> -Would it be possible from a mere theoretical point of view to not
    create and merge with a personal Deity and only connect to the deities
    one meets along the way until finally reaching the Unity? If it were
    possible what would be the advantages or disadvantages of this process
    compared to the steps one should do as per Mr. Bardon. <<

    Yes, it is possible. The disadvantage is one of the time it takes but
    that is variable and completely dependent upon one's karma. Bardon's
    method of the personal Deity (that reflects the characteristics of The
    Unity already) is generally much more rapid and certain. Another method
    is to aim for The Unity from the outset, putting aside all
    intermediaries or incomplete manifestations, but for most folks this is
    the hardest path of all.

    >> - I really am sympathetic to the types of ritual-less evocations Mr.
    Mistelle discusses on his site. I find them much more appealing than
    getting all dressed up, ritual weapons and wands, etc.etc. I know that
    when one masters a sphere one can do away with the tools and evoke
    without them. I know that the tools are there for the memory and the
    mind. So really it just takes one to "program" their mind right? <<

    Yes, but working with tools is one of the best ways to "program" the
    mind and the emotions.

    My best to you,
    :) Rawn Clark
    19 Aug 2004
    rawnclark@...
    rawn@...
    http://www.ABardonCompanion.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BardonPraxis
    http://E.webring.com/hub?ring=arionthebardonwe

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