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# Re: Questions about Fluid Condensers

#### Message 00124 of 3835

- To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: Questions about Fluid Condensers
- From: "peter_reist <peter_reist@...>" <peter_reist@...>
- Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 17:13:57 -0000
- In-reply-to: <018701c2b37f$24ee4a10$12a17fd8@ownerbqacdlzy6>
- User-agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

    Dear Rawn,

    >>>>>Jeesh! You're really keeping me on my toes today, Peter! ;-)
    After I'm done with this one, my poor brain's gonna need a long
    rest! ;-) ;-)<<<<<

    Always glad to be of service. :-) I just do this naturally at times:
    asking the hard, complex questions on topics that no body really
    seems to speak about all that much for one reason or another. Also,
    don't worry, there's plenty more where this came from.

    >>>>>EVERY thing is composed of the Fluids and their Elements. So, in
    this sense, form itself is a sort of Fluid *combiner*. This is
    different from a Fluid *condenser* in that the condenser can hold
    onto an additional accumulation of the Fluids, separate from the
    Fluids which compose its form. Another thing that distinguishes a
    condenser from other forms is that holding onto a really, really
    intense accumulation will not harm the condenser itself.<<<<<

    Alright, this is starting to make a little bit more sense too me now.
    Though there are still quite a few questions that keep on popping up
    in my mind to try and make sense of this all.

    While everything is composed of the fluids and the elements, due to
    the intrinsic nature of form that is manifest. So what is it that
    keeps these elements and fluids bound together in form? The existence
    of all four elements within all things?

    >>>>>The human being can be *transformed into* a Fluid condenser, but
    without this work of self-transformation, the human body is not,
    strictly speaking, a natural condenser. For example, when you load
    another person with an accumulation of a Fluid/Element, it will, with
    time, dissipate. The body does not *automatically* hold the
    accumulation. Plus, the body can be easily damaged by too intense an
    accumulation being present for too long a time.<<<<<

    >From my personal experience, the process of self-transformation is a
    rather long and sometimes rather painful task that takes a multitude
    of lifetimes to complete. Yet, at the very same time, the process
    which Bardon describes as to how to create a fluid condenser is a
    relatively simple process that doesn't take overly that much time to
    complete. So, how does the process of changing the self, which itself
    consists of the fluids and elements, into a fluid condenser differs
    from the transformation of the plants that Bardon lists as being the
    key ingredients in creating a universal fluid condenser into a
    universal fluid condenser? Is not both the human body, and such plant
    material, consist of the same fluids and condesners? Albeit, perhaps
    in different levels of elemental and fluid concentrations?

    When trying to heal someone by loading them with an accumulation of
    specific elements/fluids, how is the effect take place? If health is
    defined as a healthy elemental equilibrium and dis-ease is defined as
    an imbalance in the elemental equilibrium, usually a quite radical
    one, then would not attempting to heal a person through the
    elements/fluids be just a temporary fix? After all, with time, the
    accumulated elements/fluids that was projected into the other person
    would dissipate in time, perhaps resulting in the original dis-ease
    returning as the elemental imbalance returns. Also, wouldn't loading
    a person with that amount of charge effect them negatively? Or does
    an accumulated charge dissipate from a living body before it can do
    any serious damage? Or is my methodology behind healing via the
    elements and fluids totally off base?

    >>>>>By following the Bardon training you are transforming yourself
    in the ways necessary for you to become a Fluid/Element condenser
    which will automatically *hold* an accumulated charge for as long as
    desired, without harm. In certain circumstances this is a useful
    ability since it frees the consciousness from the labor of recharging
    an accumulation during an overly-long ritual. But then again, it's a
    minor advantage since the same effect can be accomplished in other
    ways (such as loading a separate condenser).<<<<

    Isn't this, in effect, what one should be working on in the physical
    exercises of step 4 in IIH? Gaining the ability to create and direct
    an accumulated charge towards a specific goal via the use of certain
    gestures.

    How would the ability to hold an accumulated charge for as long as
    desired effect one's elemental equilibrium? After all, if you held
    onto a charge of electric fluid then an imbalance has been produced.
    Or could one counteract this by holding onto a charge of both the
    fluids and all four of the elements?

    >>>>>Yes. This is *part of* the transformation process that enables
    your bodies to actually hold an accumulation without damage and
    without the need for constant replenishment. It's very much akin to
    what an Alchemist does to the materia at certain stages, wherein a
    process is repeated over and over until the materia reaches a certain
    fluidity. The structure of the materia is factually altered and this
    leads to new characteristics and capacities, etc.<<<<<

    Is also possible to create a fluid condenser by repeatedly loading
    something and letting the charge dissipate until the charge no longer
    dissipates at all? How would this sort of fluid condenser differ from
    the fluid condensers that Bardon describes in IIH? Would there be any
    real qualitative or quantitative differences between these two types
    of fluid condensers?

    If it is possible to create a fluid condenser by repeated, and
    increased accumulation, of a charge, the I can see quite a number of
    things that might be considered fluid condensers in a loose sense of
    the term, language in and of itself being one of the first to come to
    the forefront of my mind. Words being attached to certain emotions as
    they are spoken, allowing for the elemental charge of the emotion to
    seep into the cognitive matrix that makes up that word. Symbols would
    be another such thing that could be potentially created into such a
    fluid condenser. Religious symbols such as the cross being a prime
    example of this as it is widely used and recognized, and therefore
    has a greater ability to maintain a charge. Whereas a lesser known
    symbol, such as the fish within Christianity does not have the same
    sort of effect as the cross. From symbols one can extrapolate into
    the realm of dreams and mythology. And from there I seem to be coming
    to the logical conclusion that many things can potentially become a
    fluid condenser in this manner. It is just up to the magician to
    learn how to utilize all this. I'm really going to have to meditate
    on this for some time.

    >>>>>The preparatory Steps of KTQ are a continuation of the
    aforementioned process of transformation of the materia, but at a
    higher pitch, so to speak. In order for the KTQ transformations to
    have the correct effect upon the individual, the prerequisite
    transformations (Steps One through Eight of IIH) must already have
    taken firm hold. In other words, the preparatory Steps of KTQ only
    work (properly) upon a sufficiently prepared materia. Only after the
    materia has been transform again by the KTQ preparatory work, is one
    able to then *speak* Kabbalistically.<<<<<<

    As I have stated elsewhere, in the past, I had, and still have to a
    certain extent, a tendency to work at things in a non-linear manner.
    In other words I'd be working on various exercises of steps two,
    five, seven and eight of IIH at relatively the same time. A few
    months ago I even ventured to try step one of KTQ, which, to be
    honest, had a rather profound positive impact on my attitude and
    character. Granted, the effect that took place might not be rightly
    considered to be the proper transformation that would take place
    within a student that is properly prepared, which I don't consider
    myself to be, but it is a positive change never the less.

    At the present moment, I'm working in a far more systematic method
    through which I am starting at step one in IIH and working my way
    through them, one after the other, till I've gained a reasonable
    level of efficiency.

    >>>>>Kabbalistic speech itself however, is *more than* a condenser.
    It's more akin to a Philosopher's Stone in that it *automatically*
    accumulates, combines and sets into motion, the Fluids, without the
    need for loading by the magician. Kabbalistic speech is a creative
    act that *instantly* gives *form to* the raw, undifferentiated
    Fluids/Elements.<<<<<

    Okay, this makes sense. Quabalahistic speach = the ability to make
    form from force. Which in turn seems to be a short from for the
    exercises that one finds within the step 4 physical training of IIH.

    Digressing back to a point you made in a previous posting, you noted
    that a physical fluid condenser, would effect the physical, astral
    and mental planes. Whereas an astral fluid condenser would only
    effect the astral and mental planes, and a mental fluid condenser
    would effect only the mental plane. At the present moment my mind
    does not want to comprehend this for one reason or another. So, why
    is this? Doesn't an effect on the mental plane in turn effect the
    astral, which in turn effects the physical, and vis a vis?

    Live well, and try not to get too many headaches from reading all
    this!
    Peter Reist

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