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# Re: What does it mean to become noble concerning passions?

#### Message 03526 of 3835

- To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: What does it mean to become noble concerning passions?
- From: luxmagus@...
- Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 04:57:04 -0000
- In-reply-to: <000001c50188$d7513290$1c74fea9@Lori>
- User-agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

    Hi Lori,
    I greatly enjoyed your post. Again it is nice to see a person
    facing the same struggles as I am. I understand completely about
    that magical split second realization that you are about to have a
    failing. You have just a moment to prepare yourself for a negative
    reaction and that preparation can give you a better option, a choice
    toward a different and better direction for you life. I am
    especially getting the warning now when people start to make me
    angry. I can see the emotion starting to bubble up through the
    layers to the surface. Then I have that moment where I catch myself,
    and I imagine the negative event impacting me no more than a leaf
    settling upon a serene pond. Just a tiny ripple and then it is gone.
    The work is so much more ecstatic and wonderful than I had expected.
    I thought the mirror work would be nothing but one immense struggle.
    It is difficult work, but the rewards are much more than I
    anticipated.
    I look forward to what Rawn mentioned about catching yourself even
    earlier in the process and eventually eliminating the tendency
    altogether.
    I was concerned that many of my negative flaws actually have a
    positive contribution to my personality. In other words there is
    something valuable in the flaw, a hidden agenda that over the long
    run is positive. Perhaps some behaviors are there to teach me to
    have more fun, or quit taking things so seriously etc. However the
    behavior is still a quality I do not wish to have and is a part of
    my shadow, so it will be dealt with in due time. I am looking very
    carefully at trying to find what the negative behaviors are trying
    to teach me about myself, and perhaps adding in additional positive
    habits to my white mirror....purposely developing them in myself, in
    order to fulfill these needs.
    Your post was most eloquent and beautiful Lori,
    Thanks and Blessings,....and oh yeah....Go tribe;-)
    Jerry

    --- In BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com, "Lori V Weber" <lorivw@s...>
    wrote:
    > I used to think I had difficulty with the step 2 introspection
    because I
    > honestly believed there wasn't much wrong. And what's amazing is
    that I
    > really believed this AFTER listing all the 100+ soul mirror
    traits. So
    > my ambitious strategy was to tackle one sin a day for just over
    100 days
    > and - ta da! - become a saint. I wasn't going to let anything or
    anyone
    > bother me. And this approach would have worked just fine if I'd
    never
    > left my house. However, I have two jobs and a bevy of kids and
    needed
    > to go out quite a bit.
    >
    >
    >
    > And then, when I was literally sweating my way through the painful
    > process of discovering (not exactly learning, but truly seeing for
    the
    > first time) that 100 days wasn't going to cut it, the gods
    presented me
    > with a few gifts. Although I was oblivious to their value at the
    time,
    > I encountered a few folks who make Sr. Mary Elephant (from the
    Blues
    > Brothers movie) look like Mother Theresa. One person loved to
    berate
    > all his subordinates in front of anyone who was available. There
    were a
    > few others, but this particular guy became one of my biggest
    teachers,
    > albeit unknowingly. Sometimes it's still hard to thank him in
    > meditations, but if it wouldn't have been for him, I would never
    have
    > figured out that I needed to do more mirror work, and approach it
    a bit
    > more realistically.
    >
    >
    >
    > The only thing that works for me is to develop a habit of catching
    > myself slipping. Yes, it's nice to know which element is out of
    whack,
    > but I think that may be secondary to just noticing my response to
    > whatever seemingly external event is irking me. I'm still not
    there,
    > but simply seeing a chain of events begin to unfold - to trigger
    > dark-mirror responses - can be enough to stop the problem from ever
    > happening. I used to actually believe that a defensive and sulky
    > response was perfectly justified (and sometimes I still do!) when
    > certain things would happen - usually when someone yelled at me at
    work
    > or when my baseball team lost a game or when the toilet was
    overflowing
    > because someone flushed an action figure, or when a piece of good
    work
    > got shot down by another boss.
    >
    >
    >
    > I wasn't ready to deal with the big root problem of my response.
    > Sometimes I still can't, but these days I can sit down with my dark
    > mirror and not want to get rid of it; instead I can look at things
    and
    > ask myself what can I do to change them? So, I'd take one aspect
    of my
    > reaction. Just one. And I'd tell myself to be on guard all day
    long
    > for the feeling of . whatever (say, sulky - but it could be
    anything).
    > And then I'd look for the antecedent. What made me feel that
    way? What
    > was the mental issue? What were my emotions? What was I doing
    > physically to process it? If I could get to my notebook with my
    mirror,
    > I'd write it down. If not, I'd just hold it in my awareness for
    awhile
    > and ask myself why this response was occurring. And it was
    unbelievable
    > to me, but I found that I could change my response. Of all the
    Bardon
    > work in IIH - heck, of all the school work I'd ever done - this
    was the
    > most amazing thing that I've ever learned. When I'd meditate on
    that
    > one thing, I could see a pattern that would kinda work like a
    domino
    > effect on bunches of other dark reactions. And all because all I
    did
    > was notice. However, I don't think any amount of meditating on my
    > mirror would have helped me unless it had been coupled with those
    awful
    > experiences.
    >
    >
    >
    > There are some aspects that are so painful to deal with that it's
    hard
    > to tackle them as "the big things" - in and of themselves. And
    that's
    > why I think a typical reaction is to overanalyze them. When I'd
    read
    > through my mirror, especially early on, I'd see so much ka ka that
    I'd
    > close it and just think about how much better I was than everyone
    else.
    > ;-) ;-) ;-) So, I'd see everything I thought I needed to change
    and
    > then I'd see these problems in everyone around me. Of course, I
    knew I
    > had these issues too, but remember, I didn't think I was all that
    bad.
    > This goes back to my "100-sins-in-100-days approach." Doing the
    work
    > required me to see my warts without then turning them into a false
    badge
    > of honor. And one of the things that I needed was to let go of
    > processing them. On one hand, I needed to look at them, but on the
    > other, I really didn't want to see them. And then I needed to
    learn to
    > just quietly sit with one reaction - just one - and trace it back
    to
    > where it came from. I've found that even though it was not easy to
    > scrutinize myself, it even became possible to watch my reaction to
    how I
    > scrutinized, and I found that pining over my faults could take on
    its
    > own need to be let go. Just because something is on the mirror's
    dark
    > side, doesn't mean it's bad in itself. It's just there until I
    figure
    > out how to use it. And I'm still doing a lot of figuring ;-)
    >
    >
    >
    > I didn't mean to ramble so long, but there seem to be a lot of
    postings
    > about mirror work and introspection. As someone who's greatly
    benefited
    > from this phase of IIH, I'd just like to offer encouragement to
    keep
    > doing it.
    >
    > lori
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Rawn Clark [mailto:rawnclark@n...]
    > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 1:00 PM
    > To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [BardonPraxis] Re: What does it mean to become noble
    > concerning passions?
    >
    >
    >
    > Dear Ravi,
    >
    > >> If at anytime you feel i am belaoring a fairly obvious point ,
    please
    > feel free to say so. <<
    >
    > It does concern me that this discussion has centered so much around
    > 'what if's and around what *others* *might* encounter but not about
    > *your* own experience of these matters. This, like so much in
    Hermetic
    > *initiation*, only reveals itself to your full understanding
    *when* you
    > actually are engaged in the work itself (e.g., Jerry's recent
    post).
    > When the intellectual refinement of a question needs to be pursued
    to
    > the nth degree, it is often a sign that more time needs to be
    spent in
    > the actual practice and that the information you're really hungry
    for
    > will be found there, instead of in the intellectual explanation, no
    > matter how concise it might be.
    >
    > >> Fair Enough .If I hear you right what you are saying is that
    the real
    > "inner voice" would *never* say "Kill" or "Dominate Others ".
    Underlying
    > this there seems to be an assumption that there is a *Universal*
    system
    > of values (and consequently "rights" and "wrongs"),irrespective of
    place
    > ,time and situation. <<
    >
    > What did you think Bardon's listing of the positive and negative
    > characteristics was about if not a *universal* statement of
    positive
    > BEing? We each however, *express and manifest* the Universal
    essence in
    > our own unique ways within the temporal realm. We personalize the
    > Universal. The point of initiation and of the character
    transformation
    > specifically is to *consciously* manifest our personal expression
    of the
    > Universal qualities of BEing.
    >
    > >> a)the 'cultural difficulty' problem. I am an avid student of
    > history. Consequently I am aware of how much of our "value system"
    is
    > dependent on the cultural milieu in which we grow up. <<
    >
    > How *you* feel *inside* is not rooted in your culture. It is
    *modified*
    > by your culture, but the root is in *you* (i.e., the Individual
    Self).
    >
    > >> b)the 'real world effectiveness' problem <<
    >
    > I don't understand what you're trying to say here. If you think
    that
    > the character transformation work is "fluffy bunny" or leads in
    some way
    > to "fluffy bunnyness" then it is clear you are not talking from
    > practical experience. I suggest that you focus on practice and
    see for
    > yourself. The character transformation work anchors you very
    clearly in
    > THIS world. :)
    >
    > >> c)the "what do i do in practice" problem
    > I think *in practice" at step one , <<
    >
    > If this is what you *think* then try it out and see if it
    *works*. :)
    > All of your speculations about what might or might not be possible
    have
    > yet to be tested through experience. Hermetic *initiation* (as
    opposed
    > to the intellectual study and speculation) is founded upon *your*
    > *experience*.
    >
    > My best to you,
    > :) Rawn Clark
    > 23 Jan 2005
    > rawnclark@n...
    > rawn@a...
    > http://www.ABardonCompanion.com
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BardonPraxis
    > http://E.webring.com/hub?ring=arionthebardonwe
    >
    >
    >
    >
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    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

- Follow-Ups:
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- References:
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    - From: "Lori V Weber" <lorivw@...>

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