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# Re: does BardonPraxis combine with shaman rituals?

#### Message 00995 of 3835

- To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: does BardonPraxis combine with shaman rituals?
- From: "peter_reist" <peter_reist@...>
- Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 18:07:58 -0000
- In-reply-to: <001601c33ce2$d8f9f080$40a37fd8@ownerbqacdlzy6>
- User-agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

    Dear Viraj,

    >From my understanding of shamanism, the use of psychotropic drugs and
    plants is something that is only done after the initial and thoughal
    training of the mind, body and soul. Without this sort of training,
    the use of such a drug can be deprimental to all three aspects of the
    self. Moreover, without this sort of training prior to the ingestion
    of such hallucinogens, all that is produced is an
    uncontrolable "trip". The shaman has to express complete control over
    himself and the spirits that he is working with. If he does not, then
    he is not a shaman.

    Dear Rawn,

    >>>Shamanism and Bardonism are not incompatible, however, they both
    require a distinctly different sort of training.<<<

    I'd agree with you on the point that shamanism and Bardonism are not
    incompatible. However, I have to disagree with you on the point that
    they require a different sort of training. This becomes particularly
    evident when one looks at the work of evocation, mental wandering,
    the creation of elementals and creative visualization. All of which
    have their equivelent within most shamanic traditions that I have
    researched. Mind you, the shaman works primarily within a paradigm
    that consists of different spirits and not different qualities of
    energy...so there are distinct differences.

    In most respects, you can look at any magical or esoteric tradition
    and trace it's roots back to shamanism if you really want too. The
    theory and practice of the art is just updated to suit the times that
    the tradition exists within.

    Love and Live well,
    Peter Reist

    --- In BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com, "Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@n...>
    wrote:
    > Dear Viraj,
    >
    > >> i have a question concerning the use of ayahuasca: can those
    plants
    > help to heal and prepare the different bodys for expansion, are they
    > beneficial even in long term? or is the effect just limited to the
    time
    > of use and there is no substitute for practice and work? or is the
    use
    > of natural psycedelics
    > (the shaman way) even contradictory to bardon praxis? <<
    >
    > There's a LOT more to the Shamanic path than just taking a few
    > hallucinogens! ;-) There's no less "practice and work" to the
    Shamanic
    > path than there is in the Hermetic path. In the right context, the
    use
    > of psychedelics can indeed have long-term healing effects, but in
    the
    > wrong context the exact opposite can easily result and there can
    occur a
    > magnification of dis-ease. If you're truly interested in exploring
    that
    > avenue, then I suggest you hook up with a *real* Shaman and ask for
    some
    > guidance.
    >
    > Shamanism and Bardonism are not incompatible, however, they both
    require
    > a distinctly different sort of training.
    >
    > >> i am still struggeling with step one, means trying to keep
    vigilant
    > in meditation and aware in daily life. and i have the feeling that i
    > need some support to get out of my fixed patterns of life, to heal
    some
    > issues in the body wich keep me dull and weak. <<
    >
    > First off, stop *struggling*. ;-) Seriously, let go of that mind-
    set
    > of 'struggle'. Instead, relax into it. Otherwise, it will become a
    > burden very quickly and you'll get discouraged, which is no fun.
    >
    > Secondly, I'd suggest some other healing modality than taking
    > psychedelics. If you're into Shamanic traditions, I'd suggest
    seeking
    > out a Sweat Lodge Ceremony with a *real* Med'cine Person.
    Otherwise,
    > something along the lines of Ayruveda, Chinese Medicine, etc., . . .
    > something that addresses the *whole* person.
    >
    > And thirdly, the major portion of the work of character
    transformation
    > begins with Step Two. With Step One, you're just taking stock of
    the
    > inner territory, but in Step Two you really begin making changes to
    the
    > inner landscape. These are the techniques which will get you out of
    > those fixed patterns and help you to heal those internal issues
    which
    > are keeping you "dull and weak".
    >
    > If you've already finished the construction of your positive and
    > negative Soul Mirrors, but are still working your way through the
    > meditation exercises, then I suggest that you look ahead to Step
    Two and
    > check into the techniques that Bardon described for use in the
    character
    > transformation. There would be no harm in your applying them to the
    > central issues that are making you feel the way you've described.
    >
    > My best to you,
    > :) Rawn Clark
    > 27 Jun 2003
    > rawnclark@n...
    > rawn@a...
    > http://www.ABardonCompanion.com
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BardonPraxis
    > http://E.webring.com/hub?ring=arionthebardonwe

- References:
  - Re: does BardonPraxis combine with shaman rituals?
    - From: "Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@...>

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