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# Re: PME, beings of Jupiter-Saturn and Abramelin?

#### Message 03801 of 3835

- To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: PME, beings of Jupiter-Saturn and Abramelin?
- From: "Patrik" <patwe77@...>
- Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:27:03 -0000
- In-reply-to: <007f01c54822$86235e80$4cb53542@ownerbqacdlzy6>
- User-agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

    Dear Rawn, Dear all

    Thanks for the links ...

    "For truly, any person who has reached such a level will, on their
    own, very quickly realize that a code was used and that the names as
    published are useless" [Rawn]

    It's still a great difference whether those names are just "useless"
    or "demonical".

    Paul Allens critique says that Bardon - faking sygills as positive
    Spirits - in reality is an existing book on *demonology* - Abramelin.
    Even if done as a test, if this were true (I do not say it is), one
    could hardly *not* consider Bardon being a good, ethical person! In
    his German critique, Paul Allen adds in his epilog, which he does not
    write in his English Version, as conclusion about Bardon:

    "1.Bewusste Täuschung um sich in den Augen von naiven Menschen
    einen
    besonderen Anstrich zu geben. Sollte dies zutreffen, dann kann man
    über solch niedere und billige Motive nur entrüstet den Kopf
    schütteln. [Bardon was either a swindler, not at all an ethical
    person - according to PA]"

    or

    "2. Es könnte aber auch sein, dass sich Bardon durch die von ihm
    praktizierten Übungen in einer selbst geschaffenen Phantasiewelt
    verloren und verirrt hat und nicht mehr in die Realität
    zurückgefunden hat. [Bardon was insane, crazy - according to PA]"

    I said, before, I personally do *not* agree (belief) with that, but
    cannot *proof* because of the not yet clarified Abramelin question.

    Coming back to this question, seeing for example
    [http://www.mygoodangel.net/us/index.htm] from French Bardonists

    or the book of Haziel, using the same Siprit names of Mercury zone by
    Bardon;
    saying that a) every person is astrologically in contact with
    those spirits anyway anytime, regardless whether someone knows or not
    (depending on the persons character whether it is the "positive"
    or "negative" genius) b)Even persons praying Psalms - as codified
    keys for Mercury zone Spirit - come in to contact with them.
    Even Bardon says that praying can positively influence the astral
    body.

    So, the question remaining here is not wether praying or "mygoodangel
    net" is true evocation (it is not and I think it is not meant to be),
    but whether all that is based on a *demonical* book - Abramelin - or
    not.
    And this is an *ethical* question and probably a question of
    *basic research* too, concerning Abramelin and PME of Bardon.

    Patrik

- Follow-Ups:
  - Re: Re: PME, beings of Jupiter-Saturn and Abramelin?
    - From: "Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@...>

- References:
  - Re: PME, beings of Jupiter-Saturn and Abramelin?
    - From: "Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@...>

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