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# Re: Re: Digest Number 638

#### Message 03472 of 3835

- To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: [BardonPraxis] Re: Digest Number 638
- From: mds <reifiedmind@...>
- Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:31:18 +0000
- In-reply-to: <csg2p5+e8hd@eGroups.com>
- References: <csg2p5+e8hd@eGroups.com>

    Mark,

    I feel you miss the point somewhat - the central stress as I gathered
    from Rawn's clarification was that of the self in self-development.
    This you seem to have completely ignored (be it consciously or
    unconsciously) and simply proceeded to brand the act of smoking as
    indubitably negative, and Rawn as 'irresponsible'.

    It would be a rather unfortunate (and, in my mind, mistaken) position
    to regard Rawn as the 'leader of this group' in the literal sense you
    imply; indeed, the group is moderated and run by Rawn (hi Rawn!) but to
    make such a crude distinction as 'leader' implies 'the led', a gaggle
    of mindless people who need to be instructed what is positive/negative,
    right/wrong. In other words, a group whose development lies at the feet
    of its omniscient leader. Such is in stark contrast to my reading of
    Bardon, and indeed, nearly all of Western Mystical tradition. The
    mentor is there not to lead but aid, instruct, clarify, share in their
    experiences as someone who has walked the path (and continues to do so)
    before you. The development must, in my understanding, be left to the
    individual otherwise genuine progress would not be coming from within,
    but without. Transformation cannot occur by dictum, only through
    self-initiation.

    I'm not asserting 'positivity' of tobacco smoking either - it seems you
    completely missed the point that Rawn was making. Your perspective of
    self also seems a tad over-inflated, if I might venture an impression
    from reading your post. All this talk of 'fulfilling contractual
    obligations' et al. The central point: the kernel of responsibility in
    self-development has to be the self. It seems futile blaming everyone
    else for failings or perceived negativity rather than looking inwards
    introspectively. I suggest you heed this advice yourself. I certainly
    shall.

    Anyway, at the risk of going on ad nauseam, I'll stop there. Hope the
    above wasn't too ironically dogmatic!

    - from a trainee magi, evidently not as impressionable as some -

    regards to all,
    Fraternally,
    Marc

    On 17 Jan 2005, at 10:07, bigimpact2003 wrote:

    >
    >
    > Dear Rawn,
    >
    > As you run this group, you are well aware that an incredible number of
    > the trainee magi *are* impressionable and furthermore many have
    > difficulty understanding and comprehending many *simple* instructions
    > of magical training.
    >
    > When you state that *you* as the leader of this group have a postive
    > experince of what is ultimately and *unquestionably* a neagtive vice
    > you are opening the floodgates and acting irresponsibly.
    >
    > I am not speaking to you borne of ego, but of concern as this is one
    > of an incredibly few posts you have made which is not constructive.
    >
    > When I tell people what they *need* to do, it is a contractual
    > obligation - nobody can claim that they are stuck at a lower
    > vibrational resting rate for a *very* long time after death when they
    > have been directly warned about action which needs to be undertaken.
    > The discord on the other side for this reason is *massive*.
    >
    > Your comment regarding the underlying meaning of messages and the fact
    > that many are simply as they seem is borne of the fact that you are
    > not able to see this deeply in to the reality of the situation. Have
    > you perchance considered that your smoking is symbolic of the clouding
    > of the intellect to a sufficient degree that prevents you from
    > penetrating truth this deeply and subsequently use your present
    > konwledge as a smokescreen to remain in a comfort zone?
    >
    > As always, I love your forum and find it incredibly constructive and
    > beneficial to the members; but pretending something negative is OK as
    > that is your perception of the experince is *not* constructive in your
    > position.
    >
    > From your perspective, I am just a random name on a screen - and
    > indeed I am; but remember that when you come to rest; the previously
    > stated contractual obligation on my part has been fulfilled.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Mark
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com, "Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@n...>
    > wrote:
    >> Dear Mark,
    >>
    >>>> It is important to note that often the underlying will of the *All*
    >> is present in ways the author of a note/article/book/song etc. is
    >> often
    >> never aware of, and the underlying meaning can only be unlocked by
    >> those
    >> gifted with sufficient insight and development. The underlying intent
    >> of the post was for the author to be made aware that smoking is not
    >> healthy and to have a self created veil lifted with which he can
    >> subsequently work. <<
    >>
    >> :) And just as often a message is exactly what it appears. Many
    >> times,
    >> the assumption that there is a) something underlying and b) that you
    >> know exactly what it is, leaves the primary question unanswered. At
    >> that point, the response becomes about the responder and not the
    >> question.
    >>
    >>>> Interestingly you state you have a physcial addiction, but have
    >> sorted out the emtional level of your problem. This still doesn't
    >> change
    >> the fact you have a physical and negative addiction, which you need to
    >> balance out with healing remedies and magic. <<
    >>
    >> Egotism is an interesting beast, especially as it manifests in those
    >> pursuing a magical initiation. I've lost count of the number of
    >> messages to BardonPraxis I've rejected because they had to do with
    >> nothing other than the author's own ego needs to impress others!
    >> Frequently this is manifested as a person telling another person what
    >> they "need" to do in order to make themselves a better person, better
    >> magician, etc. And most often, these assertions are based upon
    >> erroneous assumptions colored by the author's own internal struggles.
    >> Or even when the assumptions are correct, there is still the author's
    >> own need to give directions where they have no business giving them.
    >>
    >> Frankly, while you are welcome to your opinions about me and about
    >> smoking, you are not welcome to tell me what I "need" to do. *I*
    >> decide
    >> what *I* need do. That is the essence of the Soul Mirror work of
    >> character transformation -- that we each must consciously decide what
    >> *we* are to do or not do based upon *our own* understanding of
    >> ourselves. A related lesson that *hopefully* arises during the
    >> experience of the Soul Mirror work is that it is none of *our*
    >> business
    >> what others choose -- that is *their* choice and *their*
    >> responsibility,
    >> just as *our* choices are *ours*.
    >>
    >>>> Occasional smoking can indeed be useful as a stimulant for certain
    >> activities, but claiming that a consitent phsyical addiction (and your
    >> wonderful yellow teeth!) is not negative <<
    >>
    >> ;-) It is always interesting to me to see what parts of my statements
    >> folks will completely overlook in their rush to react to those parts
    >> of
    >> my words that strike some sort of internal chord. It reveals a lot
    >> about where they are coming from and what issues are most prevalent
    >> for
    >> them. For the record, I did not claim that smoking or any part of it,
    >> was "not negative". I repeatedly emphasized the fact that I was
    >> speaking about *my* experience. To quote --
    >>
    >> "So for *me*, it is not a negative experience. I *enjoy* smoking and
    >> for *me* the benefits *I* reap from the experience far outweigh any
    >> physical detriment."
    >>
    >>>> puts out a highly incorrect and negative message to the more
    >> impressopnable and less strongly willed. <<
    >>
    >> *My* message, regardless of how you have interpreted it, was in
    >> response
    >> to a question about *my* experience with smoking and I answered
    >> speaking
    >> only for *my*self. It was *completely* correct for *me* as a
    >> statement
    >> of *my* experience.
    >>
    >> Besides, the members of this list are intelligent enough to actually
    >> think for themselves! :)
    >>
    >> My best to you,
    >> :) Rawn Clark
    >> 16 Jan 2005
    >> rawnclark@n...
    >> rawn@a...
    >> http://www.ABardonCompanion.com
    >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BardonPraxis
    >> http://E.webring.com/hub?ring=arionthebardonwe
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >

    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

- References:
  - Re: Digest Number 638
    - From: "bigimpact2003" <bigimpact2003@...>

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