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# Re: LOVE UNCONTROLLED BY WILL

#### Message 01988 of 3835

- To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: LOVE UNCONTROLLED BY WILL
- From: "Peter Reist" <preist@...>
- Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 04:51:30 -0000
- In-reply-to: <002e01c3c4d8$9559b490$caa37fd8@ownerbqacdlzy6>
- User-agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

    Dear Rawn,

    >>>Your post was quite lovely. :) I really love what you did with the
    Pattern on the Trestleboard!!!<<<

    To me, the Pattern on the Trestleboard is just a tool that can be
    used in the aid of understanding virtually anything. Those key words
    can be replaced with virtual any noun or verb imaginable: love, hate,
    anger, malace, joy, and so forth. By placing the key term of each of
    those statements - Power, Will-To-Good, Wisdom, Understanding,
    Substance, Justice, Beauty - into all of the key places one arives at
    a version of the three of life that describes the tree within that
    particular sepheroth.

    >>>Actually, his statement in IIH was fairly straight forward.
    Essentially he was pointing out that the magician must at all times
    (and especially when interacting with astral beings) be in control of
    their own emotions. For the magician, emotion must be *intentional*,
    not reactionary, and the magician must at all times be aware of, and
    in control of, that which motivates their actions.<<<

    That's one take on it, a particularly practical one when looking at
    the workings of Bardon's Hermetics. What Bardon wrote was, "The Love
    is the Love, but Love under a Strong Will."

    The first portion of the statement reminds me quite heavily of
    something from Moses Cordovero's _Pardes Rimmonim_ in which he likens
    the sepheroth as coloured vessels through which water is poured
    through. As the water passes through these various vessels, the water
    appears to change to the colour of that vessel, yet the water itself
    is colourless. The change in colour does not effect the water itself,
    but rather our perception of it. The Divine is the Divine, no matter
    what shape it exists within. So to is the Love always the Love, even
    though it may take many shapes and many forms.

    The second portion of the statement is a little bit more complex,
    depending upon which position you wish to look at it from. With your
    interpritation there is a definative hierarchy; love must follow from
    a conscious choice, an act of will. Taken from a more structural
    standpoint, if Love is to be placed underneath the Will, then it is
    Love that supports the development and actions of a strong Will.
    Without Love, there can be no strong Will to make such conscious
    actions. Sortof a circular argument, I know...but that never stopped
    occultists and metaphysicians from making them. :)

    In some respects, Love is somewhat like the prima materia within
    alchemy. It's the first step that needs to be taken for a firm
    foundation to be created. Though, in most cases, it's not something
    that falls into place til one builds up to the third or fourth story
    then looks down at the foundation and goes, "Umm...that doesn't look
    too stable, does it?" Or just falls flat on their face a couple of
    times when everything collapses underneath them. While the Magician
    and the World occupy exactly opposite positions upon the tree of
    life, I feel that they are two things that should be trained at the
    same time. Though the neophyte often doesn't realize the importence
    of the path of love and compassion til a few years into their
    training.

    Now, after reading your explination as to what Tav is all about in
    relation to the 32 Paths of Wisdom and the Torah verses...I want to
    bang my head against the nearest wall. When I was writing up the
    first draft I got hung up trying to explain how all of this relates
    to thre tree of life, Bardon's works, the 32 paths of wisdom and what
    not all. Mostly due to the fact that I was persuing the writing from
    an intellectual position as opposed to the position of a practicing
    magician. After not being able to put it all into coherent words I
    simply set it aside and continued with my practice. Guess I'll leave
    the technical stuff to you, I'll just write the actual exercises once
    I actually get them figured out myself as to how it all works. :)

    Shadow Dancer,

    Yes, this sort of thing does potentially lead into a discussion about
    sex magic and what not all. Though given the fact that it is late, I
    am tired, having just got over a bit of a cold, and am still
    pondering over the wisdom of discussing such things in detail in the
    open...I'm going to bed.

    Love and Live well,
    Peter Reist

- References:
  - Re: Re: LOVE UNCONTROLLED BY WILL
    - From: "Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@...>

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