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# Re: What does it mean to become noble concerning passions?

#### Message 03522 of 3835

- To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: What does it mean to become noble concerning passions?
- From: "Ravi Mohan" <magesmail@...>
- Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:01:11 -0000
- In-reply-to: <009501c50175$cbdd0c30$3fb63542@ownerbqacdlzy6>
- User-agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

    Rawn,

    > It does concern me that this discussion has centered so much around
    > 'what if's and around what *others* *might* encounter but not about
    > *your* own experience of these matters.

    ok . fair enough :-)
    I *thought* I was on topic :-)
    I guess this does reflect my experience in a way .
    But that is a long story .Suffice to say that when i created my mirror
    with "good" and "bad " attributes , with the "good" and"bad" coming
    from social conditioning and "socially accepted" mores, i found
    myself striving to become someone *I* didn't want to be . The "how
    *you* feel and think is good " meme , in one of Rawn's earlier mails
    struck a chord and hence my posts .
    One simple example is an item on my mirror "Pride" . I plonked this
    into the "black" mirror and intended to work towards being "humble"
    (culturally pride = bad, humility == good ).On reflection, i find
    there are TWO kinds of hunility , one of being humble because you
    *know* (not think... know) that however high your achievements, there
    are people better than you and you always have more to do and become(i
    call this humility based on *perception* ) and the other is being
    humble because that is "good" (i call this humility based on a notion
    of "goodness" ).In *my* world the former is different from the
    latter. Suffice to say i encountered tremendous resistance trying to
    be "nice" (which is what i equated "positive" to) . I am now redoing
    my mirror based on who and what *I* want to become .

    I guess in a nutshell, i find that many of my mirror items are
    misclassified and the "bad" items have components of"good" and vice
    versa .Now my mirror is looking very different , and many of my
    "positives" and "negatives" don't look anything like my "culture
    sanctioned" values . I guess there is still some residual confusion
    there . Aplogies if any of this was rather fuzzily expressed .

    > What did you think Bardon's listing of the positive and negative
    > characteristics was about if not a *universal* statement of positive
    > BEing?

    Ahhh but i thought we should NOT rely on BArdon's charactersitics
    ?What i found out after a long struggle to be "good" was that each of
    these characteristics , say "humility" looked very different to me
    than what is "commonly" accpeted as its meaning. maybe i would have
    saved a lot of time and effort if i had figured this out earlier .

    > How *you* feel *inside* is not rooted in your culture. It is *modified*
    > by your culture, but the root is in *you* (i.e., the Individual Self).

    ok . i need to think on this further .

    > >> b)the 'real world effectiveness' problem <<
    >
    > I don't understand what you're trying to say here. If you think that
    > the character transformation work is "fluffy bunny" or leads in some way
    > to "fluffy bunnyness" then it is clear you are not talking from
    > practical experience. I suggest that you focus on practice and see for
    > yourself. The character transformation work anchors you very clearly in
    > THIS world. :)

    ok sorry rawn :) i guess i was just angry at the notion that virtue==
    "goodness" concept . i often found myself trying to be "humble"
    magnanimous" etc and feeling and being very ineffective in real world
    situations consequently . I was just trying to make the point that
    with mirror work one should become MORE effective not less in the
    physical world and if not there is something wrong . I am sure it is
    blindingly obvious to lots of people. :-|

    > If this is what you *think* then try it out and see if it *works*. :)
    > All of your speculations about what might or might not be possible have
    > yet to be tested through experience. Hermetic *initiation* (as opposed
    > to the intellectual study and speculation) is founded upon *your*
    > *experience*.

    Makes PERFECT sense !!

    Thanks again,
    ravi

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