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# Re: Another Step One question - EOM and lucid dreams

#### Message 01762 of 3835

- To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: Another Step One question - EOM and lucid dreams
- From: "David Yeh" <ldreamr@...>
- Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:02:56 -0000
- In-reply-to: <003b01c3a972$1ee84410$e7a37fd8@ownerbqacdlzy6>
- User-agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

    --- In BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com, "Rawn Clark" <rawnclark@n...>
    wrote:
    > No, Bardon didn't suggest any dreamwork in his books. Dreamwork is
    > mostly about the exploration of one's own psyche from *within the
    dream
    > state*. With the Bardon work, the psyche is explored, confronted
    and
    > transformed through experiences and practices done while in the
    *awake*
    > state. This is a much more direct and reliable context for the
    > transformation of the psyche than working within a dream state. The
    > direct approach also has the side-effect, if you will, of
    enlivening the
    > dream state and *naturally* transforming into a "lucid" state of
    *self*
    > possession and *self* will. At that point, lucid dreaming can be a
    very
    > good tool for increasing your understanding of the dynamic processes
    > within your own psyche.

    Thanks Rawn.

    I have had a bit of experience with lucid dreams but after a while of
    trying to have them, I realized that I was getting bored. I didn't
    know where else to go with it -- I mean I could manipulate my
    environment at will, but other than recreation and gratification, I
    couldn't find a reason to do it. It was just too much work to be
    worth it. But from looking at various spiritual approaches to
    different states of consciousness, it's become more plain to me that
    there is a point, it's just part of a larger context of growth and
    learning than just using the dream as a Holodeck. so what you said
    makes sense.

    Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche has an interesting book called The Tibetan
    Yogas of Dream of Sleep, in which he outlines Tibetan usage of sleep
    and dream states to achieve a state of "clear light," which I suppose
    is deep emptiness of self. Very interesting to notice the
    convergence of the perspectives.

    Which leads me to a few other questions on emptiness. I think I am
    finally experiencing scanty moments of "true" emptiness. It feels
    like whenever I experience it, I grab at it and try to hold it and so
    it slips away. So instead I just have to keep "dodging" thoughts and
    focus on being open and allowing the emptiness to permeate me. Does
    that sound about right?

    Also, Rawn, you mentioned that in step one Bardon only expects the
    student to have achieved a silencing of surface thoughts, not a
    complete emptiness of mind. At one point does is Bardon's minimal
    requirement for having achieved vacancy of mind fulfilled: At the
    point where my thoughts stop being verbal and begin to be more
    feeling-ideas, or at the point where they are entirely gone? How do
    you differentiate between awareness of inner experience in general
    (thoughts, ideas, feelings, images, etc.) and awareness of thought (a
    la Thought Control) if they are all connected and related?

    And is it normal to feel fear when opening up to this emptiness? It
    feels like I am resisting the letting go of my ego-boundaries.

    Thanks so much,

    David

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