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# Re: William Mistele and Evocation

#### Message 01412 of 3835

- To: BardonPraxis@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: William Mistele and Evocation
- From: "peter_reist" <peter_reist@...>
- Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 19:00:43 -0000
- In-reply-to: <002001c37025$c0072360$34238690@missspanky>
- User-agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

    Dear Craig,

    >>>Why do you think Bardon, who undoubtedly knew what he was doing,
    included so large a section of PME if it is 'essentially useless'? Was
    he mistaken? What were his motivations?<<<

    The answer is quite simiple, and has been adressed upon numberous
    other occasions: to get published. It is commonly assumed that Bardon
    put forth the section upon the hierachy of the spirits due to the
    fact that his work would not get published if he did not put this
    material forth. This assertation is given further creidence by the
    theory section of PME that essentially says the same thing.

    >>>It seems to me you view the entities discussed as having little
    objective reality - to the extent that one person's encounter might be
    radically different to another (ie: subjective), or that a genuine
    encounter might be *veiled* through expectation, or that,
    indeed, "this sort of problem will manifest in almost any
    attempt to contact a spirit that another person has come in contact
    with and evoked".<<<

    Hardly. A spirit is as real as you or I, and, as such, has both a
    subjective and an objective reality to it. If both you and I where to
    try to remember a specific scene from our mutual past, and then
    individually put that down onto paper. Then both accounts may be very
    similar to one another, or very different. These differences might
    have to do with the state of mind either of us whas in when this
    specific memory was encoded: where we happy, sad, joyful, inebriated,
    etc. These are the filters through which the objective reality of
    such a scene passes through in order to become subjective.

    Similarly, when two different people, with two different mindsets,
    goals, beliefs and so forth, come in contact with another person,
    their experiences and opinions of that person may be quite similar or
    different from one another. Not only depending upon their own views
    and expectations, but also upon the views and expectations of the
    other person as well.

    When talking and conversing with one person I may act in a certian
    way because I have known them for a very long time. Yet in the
    company of another person that I barely know, I might act in an
    entierly different manner.

    >>>If the entities exist only as a manifestation of individual
    expectations and filters, perhaps they exist only within the
    individual? If an entity has certain observable 'truths' separate
    from the observer, then surely one person's account is useful - in
    the broad sense if not in the details?<<

    To the scholar that has not reached the work of step 8 or 9, then
    yes, most entities will exist only as a manifestation of their own
    psyche and any work done at this level will be little more than
    psychotherapy. I say most of the time due to the fact that there will
    always be the odd case in which the untrained scholar will somehow
    manage to wind up in contact with a spirit that has an independent
    life of its own. One such case happened when I was going through the
    work of step one and translating an online copy of PME from German to
    English when one of the sigils of the Venus sphere called out to me.
    I meditated upon the seal that Bardon puts forth and came in contact
    with some sort of spirit that, once the contact was stable enough to
    converse with the spirit, she essentially said, "Bugger off. You're
    not ready to come in contact with the likes of me. Go back to your
    studies and start at the beginning." Then, finially, almost like an
    afterthought, she added, "And meditate upon Love." A meditation that
    I consider to be very important for one's development in Hermetics
    and Kabbalah. Also, at the of this initial contact, I worked on the
    assumption that I would be contacting a portion of my own psyche.
    Even though, at this point in time I have gone back and made contact
    again, and found that this spirit is inded something seperate from
    me. Yet, regardless; if the scholar learns something valuable from a
    hidden portion of their own psyche, or from another spirit, both can
    potentially bear good fruit.

    >>>It seems to me that when one is genuinely working at this level,
    the ego is largely to one side, and any filters or personal
    perceptions are necessarily absent and therefore irrelevant. In
    short, one does not perceive these things through the ego-self.<<<

    That sounds about right. The scholar that has worked up through to
    step 8 is working with the direct perception of essential meaning, as
    Rawn calls it, when in contact with a spirit. Which is one of the
    reasons why Bardon puts the work of evocation and Kabbalah at such a
    late stage in the scholars progression along the path of Hermetics.

    Love and Live well,
    Peter Reist

- References:
  - RE: William Mistele and Evocation
    - From: Craig Bolland <craig@...>

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